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	<title>Comments on: More mistakes with authority&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: On pseudonyms and blogging - Online Political Blog</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-845</link>
		<dc:creator>On pseudonyms and blogging - Online Political Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 22:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-845</guid>
		<description>[...] information science folks have always been split on the issue of pseudonyms and the web (this link is from 2005), the recent retirement of my friends and colleagues the reveres at my favorite public [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] information science folks have always been split on the issue of pseudonyms and the web (this link is from 2005), the recent retirement of my friends and colleagues the reveres at my favorite public [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On Pseudonyms And Blogging &#124; Politic blogs</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-844</link>
		<dc:creator>On Pseudonyms And Blogging &#124; Politic blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 14:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-844</guid>
		<description>[...] information science folks have always been split on the issue of pseudonyms and the web (this link is from 2005), the recent retirement of my friends and colleagues the reveres at my favorite public [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] information science folks have always been split on the issue of pseudonyms and the web (this link is from 2005), the recent retirement of my friends and colleagues the reveres at my favorite public [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-843</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-843</guid>
		<description>Sometimes I wonder (read: worry) whether people are simply believers and non-believers when it comes to wikis, blogs and similar technologies.First, regarding your comment that &quot;even one of the contributors recognizes that there&#039;s a distinction between this grassroots effort and an &#039;authoritative source&#039;,&quot; I think the distinction they&#039;re pointing out is that the hypothetical &quot;authoritative source&quot; &lt;em&gt;does not exist&lt;/em&gt;---or is not acting quickly, efficiently, and &lt;em&gt;transparently&lt;/em&gt; enough to provide information. I emphasize transparency because I think that&#039;s one of the primary benefits of a wiki. You man not know &lt;em&gt;who&lt;/em&gt; people are in real life, but you can see every revision they&#039;ve made and judge them thusly. We are not often accorded the same liberty when it comes to traditional authority. (Here I&#039;m thinking Supreme Court Justice nominations, etc)To answer the question, &quot;Do you see any sources cited for this information?&quot; I would answer that with a question: Did you leave a comment to that effect? Did you go find a source and add it to the wiki? (As of my leaving this comment, that answer is no)See that&#039;s the difference (between the believers and the non). Traditional source authority creates a sort of passivity in people to respect &quot;authority&quot;. Since you&#039;re used to obeying authority, your first instinct isn&#039;t &quot;I should fix this.&quot; I liken this participatory authority to voting in our presidential elections. You&#039;ve got to believe that your individual vote, though practically meaningless, contributes to something much bigger, en masse. That&#039;s the authority, or more accurately the &lt;em&gt;quality&lt;/em&gt; of a wiki. You&#039;ve got a step back and see how every little change and contribution achieves a collective truth, and the authority is captured in the transparent access to the hundreds or thousands of revisions.The truth is that you, David, know something, and the something you know is that the section on Pregnant Women needs a source. So you&#039;re faced with several options:1) Do nothing2) Do nothing and complain about lack of authority (which inadvertently may bring attention to the flaw which someone else will fix)3) Fix the problem yourselfFinally your comment &quot;they&#039;ve given no one any reason to trust the information that&#039;s there&quot; I would refute by saying, &quot;Yes they have, the reason they&#039;ve given us to trust the information is that they&#039;ve put together a wiki&quot;---such that qualified people, yourself included (based, frighteningly I know, on self-appraisal), can improve the information at any instant, without any &quot;red tape&quot;---and we can all track the changes, correct mistakes, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes I wonder (read: worry) whether people are simply believers and non-believers when it comes to wikis, blogs and similar technologies.First, regarding your comment that &#8220;even one of the contributors recognizes that there&#039;s a distinction between this grassroots effort and an &#039;authoritative source&#039;,&#8221; I think the distinction they&#039;re pointing out is that the hypothetical &#8220;authoritative source&#8221; <em>does not exist</em>&#8212;or is not acting quickly, efficiently, and <em>transparently</em> enough to provide information. I emphasize transparency because I think that&#039;s one of the primary benefits of a wiki. You man not know <em>who</em> people are in real life, but you can see every revision they&#039;ve made and judge them thusly. We are not often accorded the same liberty when it comes to traditional authority. (Here I&#039;m thinking Supreme Court Justice nominations, etc)To answer the question, &#8220;Do you see any sources cited for this information?&#8221; I would answer that with a question: Did you leave a comment to that effect? Did you go find a source and add it to the wiki? (As of my leaving this comment, that answer is no)See that&#039;s the difference (between the believers and the non). Traditional source authority creates a sort of passivity in people to respect &#8220;authority&#8221;. Since you&#039;re used to obeying authority, your first instinct isn&#039;t &#8220;I should fix this.&#8221; I liken this participatory authority to voting in our presidential elections. You&#039;ve got to believe that your individual vote, though practically meaningless, contributes to something much bigger, en masse. That&#039;s the authority, or more accurately the <em>quality</em> of a wiki. You&#039;ve got a step back and see how every little change and contribution achieves a collective truth, and the authority is captured in the transparent access to the hundreds or thousands of revisions.The truth is that you, David, know something, and the something you know is that the section on Pregnant Women needs a source. So you&#039;re faced with several options:1) Do nothing2) Do nothing and complain about lack of authority (which inadvertently may bring attention to the flaw which someone else will fix)3) Fix the problem yourselfFinally your comment &#8220;they&#039;ve given no one any reason to trust the information that&#039;s there&#8221; I would refute by saying, &#8220;Yes they have, the reason they&#039;ve given us to trust the information is that they&#039;ve put together a wiki&#8221;&#8212;such that qualified people, yourself included (based, frighteningly I know, on self-appraisal), can improve the information at any instant, without any &#8220;red tape&#8221;&#8212;and we can all track the changes, correct mistakes, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: News from Rob &#187; Are Blogs Becoming Respectable And Legitimate?</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>News from Rob &#187; Are Blogs Becoming Respectable And Legitimate?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-842</guid>
		<description>[...] there was quite a kerfuffle over the legitimacy of online sourcing (see this archived piece called More mistakes with authority&#8230; to get a flavor). We took pains to try and explain the difference between anonymous and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] there was quite a kerfuffle over the legitimacy of online sourcing (see this archived piece called More mistakes with authority&#8230; to get a flavor). We took pains to try and explain the difference between anonymous and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-841</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-841</guid>
		<description>Admittedly many games such as Halo, Final Fantasy, and Zelda (100 hours!) have long or infinite gameplay, but I think theyâ€™re the exception and not the rule.

Alex</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admittedly many games such as Halo, Final Fantasy, and Zelda (100 hours!) have long or infinite gameplay, but I think theyâ€™re the exception and not the rule.</p>
<p>Alex</p>
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		<title>By: DemFromCT</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-840</link>
		<dc:creator>DemFromCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-840</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this discussion. I&#039;m one of the Flu Wiki editors that commented on David&#039;s blog. I consider this a friendly dust-up... all parties are thereby educated. The authority question is a good one in terms of philosophical and practical approaches.

The philosophical: &lt;a href=&quot;http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/authority.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Argumentum Ad Verecundiam&lt;/a&gt; is a well-known logical error.

The practical: when authoritative sources differ (e.g. different state health departments have varying advice for health providers on stockpiling Tamiflu), is it not best to catalogue the advice and then consider on the differences? Which ultimate authority does one refer to? An educated reader ought to be capable of taking that information to their own provider and be able to have an intelligent discussion, thereby coming to a tentative conclusion, which might change as more data becomes available.

That doesn&#039;t make the wiki an authoritative source... or does it, if it has more data than a local health department web site? How would you characterize a health library vs a doctor&#039;s office, and is that a proper analogy? In either case, the striving for authority is not the goal... it&#039;s dissemination of information. How it&#039;s used is up to the user. But this is not done in a vacuum. Health departments use the wiki, too. It&#039;s an easy way to keep track of what everyone else is doing.

Reviewing Kapoun&#039;s criteria, we strive for all of the above. What we achieve is up to others to evaluate; criticism is welcomed, not shunned. In fact, input is even more welcomed. It&#039;s a wiki, after all.

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this discussion. I&#8217;m one of the Flu Wiki editors that commented on David&#8217;s blog. I consider this a friendly dust-up&#8230; all parties are thereby educated. The authority question is a good one in terms of philosophical and practical approaches.</p>
<p>The philosophical: <a href="http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/authority.html" rel="nofollow"> Argumentum Ad Verecundiam</a> is a well-known logical error.</p>
<p>The practical: when authoritative sources differ (e.g. different state health departments have varying advice for health providers on stockpiling Tamiflu), is it not best to catalogue the advice and then consider on the differences? Which ultimate authority does one refer to? An educated reader ought to be capable of taking that information to their own provider and be able to have an intelligent discussion, thereby coming to a tentative conclusion, which might change as more data becomes available.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t make the wiki an authoritative source&#8230; or does it, if it has more data than a local health department web site? How would you characterize a health library vs a doctor&#8217;s office, and is that a proper analogy? In either case, the striving for authority is not the goal&#8230; it&#8217;s dissemination of information. How it&#8217;s used is up to the user. But this is not done in a vacuum. Health departments use the wiki, too. It&#8217;s an easy way to keep track of what everyone else is doing.</p>
<p>Reviewing Kapoun&#8217;s criteria, we strive for all of the above. What we achieve is up to others to evaluate; criticism is welcomed, not shunned. In fact, input is even more welcomed. It&#8217;s a wiki, after all.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: UTC Lupton Library Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Research and Website Evaluation</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-839</link>
		<dc:creator>UTC Lupton Library Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Research and Website Evaluation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-839</guid>
		<description>[...] How to Evaluate: Kapoun&#8217;s Five Criteria (Accuracy, Authority, Objectivity, Currency, Coverage) [NB: see my thoughts on Authority..I&#8217;m not a fan] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How to Evaluate: Kapoun&#8217;s Five Criteria (Accuracy, Authority, Objectivity, Currency, Coverage) [NB: see my thoughts on Authority..I&#8217;m not a fan] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-838</guid>
		<description>Finally a question for my librarian friends: we talk of [traditional] authority as if it can be measured. But my understanding is that it&#039;s much more in line with the Matthew effect above, in other words, it&#039;s essentially subjective. Is that the case? Do you measure or compare the authority in some kind of empirical way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally a question for my librarian friends: we talk of [traditional] authority as if it can be measured. But my understanding is that it&#8217;s much more in line with the Matthew effect above, in other words, it&#8217;s essentially subjective. Is that the case? Do you measure or compare the authority in some kind of empirical way?</p>
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		<title>By: justin</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator>justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-837</guid>
		<description>The funny thing is that as much as we hem and haw about the authority of these newfangled wikis, we forget that traditional authority is not without its flaws. I&#039;m reminded of a *gasp* wikipedia article I read the other day on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Matthew Effect&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In sociology, Matthew effect was a term coined by Robert K. Merton to describe how, among other things, eminent scientists will often get more credit than a comparatively unknown researcher even if their work is similar; it also means that credit will usually be given to researchers that are already famous: for example, a prize will almost always be awarded to the most senior researcher involved in a project, even if all the work was done by a graduate student.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The funny thing is that as much as we hem and haw about the authority of these newfangled wikis, we forget that traditional authority is not without its flaws. I&#8217;m reminded of a *gasp* wikipedia article I read the other day on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect" rel="nofollow">Matthew Effect</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>In sociology, Matthew effect was a term coined by Robert K. Merton to describe how, among other things, eminent scientists will often get more credit than a comparatively unknown researcher even if their work is similar; it also means that credit will usually be given to researchers that are already famous: for example, a prize will almost always be awarded to the most senior researcher involved in a project, even if all the work was done by a graduate student.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://jasongriffey.net/wp/2005/10/25/more-mistakes-with-authority/#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jasongriffey.net/wp/?p=831#comment-836</guid>
		<description>Sometimes I wonder (read: worry) whether people are simply believers and non-believers when it comes to wikis, blogs and similar technologies.

First, regarding your comment that &quot;even one of the contributors recognizes that there&#039;s a distinction between this grassroots effort and an &#039;authoritative source&#039;,&quot; I think the distinction they&#039;re pointing out is that the hypothetical &quot;authoritative source&quot; &lt;em&gt;does not exist&lt;/em&gt;---or is not acting quickly, efficiently, and &lt;em&gt;transparently&lt;/em&gt; enough to provide information. I emphasize transparency because I think that&#039;s one of the primary benefits of a wiki. You man not know &lt;em&gt;who&lt;/em&gt; people are in real life, but you can see every revision they&#039;ve made and judge them thusly. We are not often accorded the same liberty when it comes to traditional authority. (Here I&#039;m thinking Supreme Court Justice nominations, etc)

To answer the question, &quot;Do you see any sources cited for this information?&quot; I would answer that with a question: Did you leave a comment to that effect? Did you go find a source and add it to the wiki? (As of my leaving this comment, that answer is no)

See that&#039;s the difference (between the believers and the non). Traditional source authority creates a sort of passivity in people to respect &quot;authority&quot;. Since you&#039;re used to obeying authority, your first instinct isn&#039;t &quot;I should fix this.&quot;

I liken this participatory authority to voting in our presidential elections. You&#039;ve got to believe that your individual vote, though practically meaningless, contributes to something much bigger, en masse. That&#039;s the authority, or more accurately the &lt;em&gt;quality&lt;/em&gt; of a wiki. You&#039;ve got a step back and see how every little change and contribution achieves a collective truth, and the authority is captured in the transparent access to the hundreds or thousands of revisions.

The truth is that you, David, know something, and the something you know is that the section on Pregnant Women needs a source. So you&#039;re faced with several options:

1) Do nothing
2) Do nothing and complain about lack of authority (which inadvertently may bring attention to the flaw which someone else will fix)
3) Fix the problem yourself

Finally your comment &quot;they&#039;ve given no one any reason to trust the information that&#039;s there&quot; I would refute by saying, &quot;Yes they have, the reason they&#039;ve given us to trust the information is that they&#039;ve put together a wiki&quot;---such that qualified people, yourself included (based, frighteningly I know, on self-appraisal), can improve the information at any instant, without any &quot;red tape&quot;---and we can all track the changes, correct mistakes, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes I wonder (read: worry) whether people are simply believers and non-believers when it comes to wikis, blogs and similar technologies.</p>
<p>First, regarding your comment that &#8220;even one of the contributors recognizes that there&#8217;s a distinction between this grassroots effort and an &#8216;authoritative source&#8217;,&#8221; I think the distinction they&#8217;re pointing out is that the hypothetical &#8220;authoritative source&#8221; <em>does not exist</em>&#8212;or is not acting quickly, efficiently, and <em>transparently</em> enough to provide information. I emphasize transparency because I think that&#8217;s one of the primary benefits of a wiki. You man not know <em>who</em> people are in real life, but you can see every revision they&#8217;ve made and judge them thusly. We are not often accorded the same liberty when it comes to traditional authority. (Here I&#8217;m thinking Supreme Court Justice nominations, etc)</p>
<p>To answer the question, &#8220;Do you see any sources cited for this information?&#8221; I would answer that with a question: Did you leave a comment to that effect? Did you go find a source and add it to the wiki? (As of my leaving this comment, that answer is no)</p>
<p>See that&#8217;s the difference (between the believers and the non). Traditional source authority creates a sort of passivity in people to respect &#8220;authority&#8221;. Since you&#8217;re used to obeying authority, your first instinct isn&#8217;t &#8220;I should fix this.&#8221;</p>
<p>I liken this participatory authority to voting in our presidential elections. You&#8217;ve got to believe that your individual vote, though practically meaningless, contributes to something much bigger, en masse. That&#8217;s the authority, or more accurately the <em>quality</em> of a wiki. You&#8217;ve got a step back and see how every little change and contribution achieves a collective truth, and the authority is captured in the transparent access to the hundreds or thousands of revisions.</p>
<p>The truth is that you, David, know something, and the something you know is that the section on Pregnant Women needs a source. So you&#8217;re faced with several options:</p>
<p>1) Do nothing<br />
2) Do nothing and complain about lack of authority (which inadvertently may bring attention to the flaw which someone else will fix)<br />
3) Fix the problem yourself</p>
<p>Finally your comment &#8220;they&#8217;ve given no one any reason to trust the information that&#8217;s there&#8221; I would refute by saying, &#8220;Yes they have, the reason they&#8217;ve given us to trust the information is that they&#8217;ve put together a wiki&#8221;&#8212;such that qualified people, yourself included (based, frighteningly I know, on self-appraisal), can improve the information at any instant, without any &#8220;red tape&#8221;&#8212;and we can all track the changes, correct mistakes, etc.</p>
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